Leo Maxa

Hello Leo Maxa. Well, my surname is actually Maxlhaieie. My full name is Leonel Maxlhaieie. And you’re also known as Leo the Baker. Yes, that’s more popular now. Who came up with that name, it’s great? I was trying to work out what’s not registered and I thought, Leo the Baker. It’s easy. People want to come to the market and meet Leo, like they know me. They have that relationship because they see my name on Instagram and they come and say, hey Leo, how’re you doing? We actually met at a market recently and a lady came up to you and said, Leo, (I won’t try to do her accent) I’ve been looking for you, I’m from California. Exactly. The American lady, I remember that. Social media elevates things. It’s been an interesting journey. That’s what I want to talk about, your journey, so let’s start at the beginning. You were born in Mozambique. I would love to get a picture of what it was like growing up there. I think I’m right in saying it’s on the east coast of Africa, so with a very strong pair of binoculars you would see Madagascar, have you ever been there? No, but I joined the military for 2 years and was stationed near Nampula. At night on the beach there, you can see the lights of Madagascar.

Where were you born? Chibuto Gaza, which is in the south. My family still live there today. Is that a town, village…? It’s a village. So smaller than Sevenoaks? Well no, it’s bigger than Sevenoaks. It’s a village but it’s a big country. I mean Sevenoaks is small. England is small. It’s becoming a town now because it’s growing, there’s a lot of infrastructure work going on but in my time it was more like a village. I was born and raised there for over 20 years until I moved to the UK.

A typical day for me as a kid meant going to school and then afterwards, playing on my bike or football in the park with my friends. Was childhood similar for you? It was similar but before going to school you do some chores at home, clean the patio and stuff. That’s just normal, you do your jobs when you get up in the morning and then go and play. You go to school and when you come back, you play some more. Night time was more games because there wasn’t TV. We used to play football, drawing in the sand, making wire cars. We used to be creative, looking back now the creativity there was so much greater than in the UK. I hear the word bored in the UK but I never heard that then because we created games. At night-time we used to play hide and seek, but it was proper hide and seek in the dark so it was challenging to find someone. I had a really good childhood. We didn’t have much money but we were free.

This is the thing about life, isn’t it? Some things just push you… my life changed because I joined the program and that’s where I met Amy, my wife.

Did your parents work? They separated when I was 18 months, so I grew up with my dad and with lots of uncles and aunties in the house. I used to go and visit my mum every weekend. The good thing was there was no fighting. I’m sure I missed my mum as a young kid but I went to see her every weekend. Kids today have an idea of a parent based on whoever raised them. I feel lucky because my parents didn’t judge or blame. They were always good about each other, even though they weren’t together. I have a sense now that my mum still loved my dad. It was really nice, I’m really lucky. Do you have brothers and sisters? In total we are 8, but all different, all half I should say. My dad has twins with a different mum, my mum has 1 boy and 1 girl with a different dad and my dad has got another wife with 2 girls and 1 boy. Wow and you all get on? Yeah, yeah.

You have your own children now who are at school – when you look back at your school days and what happens here, what are the differences? A big difference is the start age. I started school when I was 6 or 7. The other difference is there’s more freedom in Mozambique. Here it is very controlled. This is interesting to share but it’s true. It’s more controlled in this country than in Mozambique. What do you mean by controlled? Could you choose if you went to school or not? Yeah, that is your parent’s choice. It’s not a government decision, but here, if you don’t go to school, you have to pay fines. Did you go to school? Yes. Your parents thought that was the right thing? Yes, my dad was a teacher so it was different but I never had the pressure like I had to go to school. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, I had fun, I knew what I liked in terms of subjects. English was my favourite subject. What is the national language? Portuguese, but there are different dialects in every province.

What age did you leave school? I think I was 21 when I left. That’s quite old. Yeah, I started at 7 but you fail years when you don’t do well. It’s changed a bit now but in my time, if you didn’t do well, you would fail and go back a year. I think I failed twice. The second time, I didn’t fail because I didn’t do well, it was more of a punishment. Why were you punished Leo?! We stole tests from my dad and sold them to students so they could get good marks. And then 1 boy was found out and told the school who sold it to him. And you were part of that? Well, my uncle got me into it. It wasn’t my idea. I was so embarrassed at the end of it because my dad knew about it but how he handled it was pretty good. The head teacher came to my home to interrogate me but my dad was great. He didn’t mention it at home. We didn’t talk about it. So, he didn’t have to say anything, you knew. Yeah, I just knew.

So, you left school at 21 and at that point, what did you think you were going to do with your life? I applied for university to do English and Portuguese but my Math wasn’t good enough. I remember saying to my friend, who I went with to check our exam results, something else good is coming. I have always had a good attitude, good positive mental attitude. I always think something better is coming. Nothing happens for nothing. I went back home to tell my dad, thank you for everything you’ve done but from now on I’ll take care of myself. The following year, one of my friends joined a volunteer program and she said that they were looking for new people and did I want to join? I said maybe if your boyfriend joins as well because he was my best friend. She gave both our names in but they only called me back and not him. I thought okay, this is interesting but I said, no, I’m not going. Why? You know that feeling of a new thing you don’t want to do by yourself? I did pack my bags in case I changed my mind but woke up in the morning and just went to church as usual, but when I was there they called again asking where I was. So, I just said, oh, I’m in the bus, I’m coming and thought, okay, I better go now. This is the thing about life, isn’t it? Some things just push you and from that day, my life changed because I joined the program and that’s where I met Amy, who is my wife today. After a few months we were boyfriend and girlfriend but then she had to fly back to the UK. I was heartbroken, she was crying and I was thinking she’s not going to come back but after 6 months, she came to visit, so I said, okay, this may be working. She signed up for another program in South Africa, so she could be close. The same year I was invited to join the army in Mozambique which is compulsory. I didn’t want to do it because I had a girlfriend and 2 years is too long, but I had to go. I spoke to Amy the night before, and then next morning, got on the bus. I didn’t say goodbye to my mum because I knew she wouldn’t let me go, but went to see my dad that morning to say goodbye. So you were 23 then. Yeah, it was really good fun but military is tough, especially as I had the mindset that I didn’t want to do it, that makes it even harder but I met new people and made friends who are now friends for life. It was a good experience. I was telling someone yesterday about this, I didn’t want to do it but it ended up being a blessing for me because everything is a blessing in disguise. Discipline is required to be a baker, to wake up every morning at 3am requires some sort of discipline. It’s a passion but some days you just don’t want to do it, some days you’re tired. Thank God for the army because you didn’t want to wake up at 4 every day and go for a run but it’s part of me now, I can just do it.

So, during that time, was Amy back in the UK? No, she was still in South Africa but I couldn’t talk to her because you’re not allowed any phones. There’s no communication. You can’t even write a letter? No, at least for the first 6 months. They push you, but it was a good experience. It would be good for everyone to do it just for the sake of self-respect and self-esteem. So, you left national service at 25 and thought, ‘I’m free’. That’s it, that was the word, freedom. What were your plans then? I was already organising our wedding so I stayed in the capital and found a little bit of work. I did that for 6 months and then we got married. Talk me through a Mozambican wedding. Well, it wasn’t as Mozambican as it could have been. We got married in a lodge, it was a very beautiful wedding on a beach. Actually, it was a little bit Mozambican because there were some dancers that my father-in-law somehow found in a nearby village. Proper Mozambican dancers. And that’s traditional to have at a wedding? Yes, people dancing, it’s more like a party, people having fun all night. And how many people were there? Well, it would have been really big if it was traditional but we were working on a budget. There were 52 core family members. It was quite nice actually, not having too many people, it made it easy to manage and to see everyone. Did Amy have any of her family there? Yeah. They flew in, I think it was 16 in total. Was that the first time you’d met them? No, I came to the UK in 2014 while I was in the army. Yeah, that was a bit naughty. I wasn’t supposed to leave the army, you’re not supposed to visit family unless there is a reason but every soldier creates a reason to do it. So, I came to the UK for Christmas. I had 3 months off but was only allowed 2 weeks. 3 Months! What happened when you got back, were you punished? I was very lucky. I could have been going to military prison. That would have been very bad but I was just given extra gardening work to do. So, just going back to your wedding, how was your mum with it? She was fine. She was happy to see her son getting married. The first son, the first born. But she knew I was going to move to the UK. That wasn’t easy to accept but she’s very happy now, especially when we had the baby. When I told my dad I’m going to move to the UK, he was a bit, not scared but…concerned, because it’s a big deal, isn’t it? But for me, it was an adventure.

When I told my dad I’m going to move to the UK, he was a bit, not scared but...concerned, because it’s a big deal, isn’t it? But for me, it was an adventure.

When you came over, was Amy still living with her parents? No. Six months before the wedding she moved to Sevenoaks so there was a flat and I moved straight in. Two weeks later I got a job in a bakery in Sevenoaks, my first job in the UK, but I was fired after 2 weeks because I was new in the country, my English wasn’t good, I wasn’t confident and I just found out Amy was pregnant, so my head was all over the place. I lost that job but I didn’t panic because I knew I would get a job from somewhere. I did get another job, but the pay wasn’t good and I started thinking, I now have a family, I’m not getting much money in, it’s not ideal. I started thinking to myself, what is it I can do that I really enjoy and maybe I can turn it into a job? I didn’t have an idea at first but then came photography because I liked taking pictures at home with my friends. I started saving some money and bought a camera a week before my son was born so could take pictures of him every day. I didn’t know how to use a proper camera so I just found any excuse to take pictures, asking people, taking portraits, developing the skills and then I started doing events and weddings. I built it up little by little. And then I saw a position in a studio so I applied and went to an interview. I passed the first stage but didn’t get the job because I wasn’t good enough at Photoshop, so I did some courses and tried again but still I didn’t get it. I didn’t get bitter because it wasn’t that they didn’t like me, it was because I still didn’t have the skills required. Covid hit some time after that so I was working from home doing an admin job. That meant I could also bake, not bread, but cakes every now and then and cook for the kids. One day I made peanut butter from scratch, putting the peanuts in the oven and then grinding them down and I thought, I have made this peanut butter so now I’m going to make my own bread, Mozambican bread. Peanut butter was more like a luxury in Mozambique, most of my uncles used to work in South Africa so they used to bring it back from there. I wanted to make that memory of home.

I started making bread but the first bread was proper crap, it didn’t rise. I didn’t have any bakery set up then. I didn’t even think about baking as a business. That’s the thing, I remember my mum asking me once, what would you want to be if you had a chance to go to school and I said I would like to be a chef. I just launched that out without thinking about it but it’s funny how sometimes an answer to a question is just supposed to happen. So, I made that first bad bread but I didn’t give up. I found a good recipe that was similar to Mozambican bread, I think it was Italian or Brazilian and started practicing and practicing until I got it right. I said to my wife, don’t buy any more bread and started making bread every day but was making too much so gave some to my neighbours and people at work and they said this is really good. One of them said you could start a business. I said, ‘nah’, but kept baking and one day thought maybe it could work, I mean, why not? So I sat down and registered everything and put some posts on Facebook to say I’m gonna be selling bread and soon had locals ordering 3 times a week so started delivering. I was baking in the morning, delivering and then going to work. I used to do that 7 days a week from 3am. It was a very tough beginning but I was having fun, I didn’t think about it, I just kept going and going, that first £10 was amazing, wow. So, you were getting up at 3am, baking bread, making deliveries, doing your day job, coming home, crashing and then doing it all again, seven days a week. Looking back now it was very intense, but to do your own business you have tough times.

You mentioned on your website that you used to go and collect bread in the morning when you were young. Yes, that was one of my chores. How far was it to the bakers? It was quite a walk, I would say now walking as an adult around 20 minutes but then it was longer because I used to stop in the middle of the walk and watch some football. I would then come back with my bag of warm bread. You must have helped yourself to some on the way home? No! That’s the discipline isn’t it? You have to go and get the bread and come back with it all. Was bread an important part of the day? Yes, for the family at breakfast, I would come back, drop the bread off and play while breakfast was getting prepared. It was bread and tea – no milk, no butter. So, you were brought up with good bread everyday of your life and then you come over to the UK and went to a supermarket and tried their bread – you must have wondered what that was all about. To be honest, I didn’t think about it much. My bakery business didn’t start because I went to the supermarket and thought it was bad bread. It was just coming from within me, you know what I mean? It must have been great when you managed to reproduce what you remembered from your childhood. It was a good, good feeling.

Even though you only worked at the Sevenoaks bakery for a couple of weeks, that obviously gave you a sense of what is was like and you thought that was something you enjoyed. Yeah, this is the thing. If I hadn’t have done that, I probably wouldn’t have come back to it after 4 or 5 years of working. I think you need to have some sort of thought, a desire to do something and then it will come along. If you don’t think that way, nothing comes. You’re now pointing to the poster on the wall which says Positive Mental Attitude. Where does that come from in you? Is it just because you’ve had to find solutions at every stage of your life? It sounds as if you’ve always had faith. Yes, that’s the truth. I always have faith. It’s interesting because it’s something I don’t say because it doesn’t fit into conversations but now you ask me, I have always had faith and belief. I remember talking to my dad when I was really young, sitting at the table having what would now be a nice meal with vegetables and stuff, but then as a kid I thought it wasn’t good. I remember saying, when I have a home I’m not going to eat this kind of food, thinking good food was supposed to have meat or whatever. I was telling my friends, I’m going to live in America. I was dreaming that…but it wasn’t even a dream, I believed it was going to happen. You didn’t have TV, so where did that vision come from? I had other influences of America and sort of believed I was going to live in the US. America was the only country that was talked about in Mozambique. I had incredible faith, I sort of knew I’m going to be okay. You see what I mean? Do you think if you have that attitude and belief, it helps things to happen? I think so. I believe that it does because if you already believe something’s going to happen, you’re expecting it, you act like it. If you don’t have that attitude, you don’t expect anything, so nothing happens.

So, what’s next for you? Life has changed for you every 4 or 5 years and you’ve now had the bakery for some time, so what’s next for Leo? Will it be Leo the something else, because you’ve built up a lot of loyal and happy customers now? I have. It’s amazing. I was thinking it would be a few days, a few weeks, but it’s been nearly 3 years. I have built a business and it’s been positive. I have made mistakes but even if I make a mistake, it’s tolerated because I’m honest. When I make a mistake, I just say I can’t do it because it’s not come out how I want it to. That builds trust and loyalty. And now you’ve started doing virtual workshops as well. The last time we spoke you were slightly anxious because you couldn’t get the video equipment to work and that was only a day before the workshop? Yes, but about 5 minutes after that call I got it to work because I know there’s always a way. If you want to do something there’s always a way to get it right. So, I don’t stop, I just have to think, what is the way. There’s always a way. This is nature, it is incredible. I don’t know what power is there but there is something there. What do you think about when you’re baking? When you’re in here with your headphones on listening to your music and baking, are you thinking about life, are you concentrating on the bread, does it relax you? It’s just plain happiness. You’re out of yourself a little bit. You don’t think too much about yourself. There are some hard days but in general, you have fun. I mean it’s funny, I say I’m going to work but that doesn’t sound right… you know what I mean? Because it doesn’t feel as if you’re working? Yeah, I’m creating things here. It’s amazing. Look around now. You can’t see anything but I can take the flour and mix it up and then I can make bread. It’s incredible. I think cooking is a gift, feeding people, it’s a gift.